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It's great to hear the sentiments and protestations of loyalty to the site users and all the rest.

But lets keep it real. Not one mod stepped up to the plate to help TWP by remaining for at least a bit longer. And realistically that's the proof to the pudding.

It's a pretty clear cut attempt to coerce SE into something, or punish. Not constructive in any way or indicative of respect for the rest of us. So while I'm sure they all have reasons, there's no point pretending it's in anyone's interests but theirs. Certainly not the people who voted them in to start with.

Just an observation.

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    Regarding the "proof in the pudding" comment, are you able to elaborate on what is proved? That Monica was right to be demoted? How does the actions of the other mods prove that? – Gregory Currie Oct 2 '19 at 2:06
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    It's not Monicas site... if they want to boot her they can without any explanation.... so yes SE is fully entitled and able to do so. But I don't care about Monica.... the 'proof' is that the rest immediately followed her making it clear that it's because of her, which makes their personal affiliations stronger than their site loyalty. To be honest if I was SE I'd have gotten rid of her the last time she got dramatic and started involving everyone else in her stuff. – Kilisi Oct 2 '19 at 2:09
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    I never doubted they can demote her. I was talking about what is "right". Of course they can do whatever they want. No dispute about that. But the sites users also have agency. Each decision by each mod was their own. I don't think it's fair to clump them all together. In any case, they are all human. Some people act in one way, others will go off the rails and get banned for a time. – Gregory Currie Oct 2 '19 at 2:16
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    @Kilisi I wonder what "their interests" do you have in mind. How resigning from a volunteer's position can be for somebody's interests? – Anton Menshov Oct 2 '19 at 2:17
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    @Kilisi The same way SE is fully entitled to fire Monica (I don't think anyone says otherwise), mods are fully entitled to resign their posts. The mods have a cross-site community, and of theirs was (allegedly) wrongly terminated. If a work colleague of yours that you like a lot was fired for something you believe was unjust, arbitrary and capricious, would you stand around and do nothing? Maybe, but would blame others for taking a stand? Also I don't see how this is in the mod's interest. They aren't gaining anything here. – David says Reinstate Monica Oct 2 '19 at 2:17
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    Actually, we heard very little from the people resigning other than their disagreement about how the demotion was handled. That's a perfectly valid complaint. But there remains the "mysterious" new guidelines that supposedly started this mess. What was the problem with these? Why aren't these released? – teego1967 Oct 2 '19 at 2:22
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    On the contrary, with no other active mods, I am continuing to action the mod queue until my resignation is enacted. I know the other resigning mods did the same right until their diamond was removed. My last actions as mod are to keep the place ready to the best of my ability for those who follow. – Jane S Oct 2 '19 at 2:26
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    @JaneS I stand corrected, thanks – Kilisi Oct 2 '19 at 2:35
  • @DavidGrinberg yes, I'd just stand by, I got a family to feed.... not trying to be an activist at work,... I just work..... but this isn't even close to that situation. Been a long time since I was a worker though. As a boss I'd quite happily shaft a whole team and start from scratch if they tried this sort of caper. – Kilisi Oct 2 '19 at 2:36
  • @GregoryCurrie It's not a lot of point talking to me about 'right' and wrong.... it's not what the majority of us are here for. We're not here to save the whales or legalise pot. We can all vote with our feet, but lets be real about the reasons is what I'm saying. – Kilisi Oct 2 '19 at 2:38
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    @Kilisi I think sites like these only work because people like the mods step up to the plate to assist. And yeah, spend time from other things in their life like family etc. I would like to hope that even if it was the most unpopular mod, people would be reacting the same, because what happened matters more than who it happened to (in my opinion). – Gregory Currie Oct 2 '19 at 3:46
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    Not one mod stepped up to the plate to help TWP by remaining for at least a bit longer... So while I'm sure they all have reasons, there's no point pretending it's in anyone's interests but theirs. This is ironic statement considering in your retirement announcement (now void because... you're back...) you said, life's too short to let myself worry about petty inconsequentials and people on the internet. – KingDuken Oct 2 '19 at 22:21
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    a mod overstepped their boundaries The mod in question denies this, and her understanding of the situation is supported by the overwhelming number of mods who have actually seen the transcripts in question (AFAICT only one dissenting voice, and not very strongly at that). Given that SE has a recent history of making decisions while ignoring the community (users and mods), and considering that the community (again, both users and mods) provides the content on which ... – Zev Spitz Oct 4 '19 at 5:34
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    ... the whole money-making machine is built, it is certainly to the community's benefit that SE be forced into accountability to the community. For example, the recent licensing changes, or the proposed new CoC -- these should not be imposed unilaterally on the community without some community input. – Zev Spitz Oct 4 '19 at 5:44
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    the rest is just ...... blah blah who cares..... On the contrary, "the people who voted them in to start with" should definitely care. If SE turns around and changes the license on my content again (content that I've contributed as a regular non-mod user) without my permission, and that content is then copied and misused, I care. If every post I write has to be with an eye over my shoulder for the next draconian PC guideline, I care. That's what these mods are fighting for. – Zev Spitz Oct 4 '19 at 6:08
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No one is required to volunteer their time for the sake of a for-profit corporation that treats them like dirt.

I speak from personal experience when I say that unfortunately, the way SE handled this event is not remotely surprising to me.

SE has consistently been alienating moderators and users alike through similarly myopic choices for many years at this point.

Sometimes, it just takes a single straw to break a volunteer camel's back, as the saying goes.

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  • I can attest to the alienation of users.... – Old_Lamplighter Oct 2 '19 at 12:28
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    @Kilisi no, it's a lot more than SE has been for years focusing on profitability and market viability, while saying they care about the community and value users/moderators. But their actions are inconsistent with this, and so when you see someone as well respected and loved as Monica (who for many moderators on SE has been a friend/colleague/mentor for years) get thrown under the bus so quickly, You know as well as I do how exemplary Monica is in how she treats others, which makes this all the worse. – enderland Oct 2 '19 at 12:40
  • I know no such thing about her.... I'm not a mod.... but best of luck to all of you – Kilisi Oct 2 '19 at 12:43
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It's a pretty clear cut attempt to coerce SE into something, or punish. Not constructive in any way or indicative of respect for the rest of us.

I feel more respected than if they had stayed on-board. Sometimes there is no constructive way to react to a destructive action. I cannot picture you as the guy who says "oh, just turn the other cheek. If they hit you, just endure it". That's not how I perceived you so far.

I appreciate that they fight for one of their own who was treated unfairly. Sounds like a good trait to have in a team (compared to a random group of people that are not a team, where the others just shrug and duck).

And seeing how many off-site moderators agree, I think it's not just a little Workplace clique, but an actual, SE wide problem.

I for one do not want to lose my account without warning one day because I used the "wrong" pronoun. I certainly don't want to lose it over asking what exactly constitutes a "wrong pronoun". And I'm quite happy to see that more influential people than me shine a light on that problem.

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    I'm a professional troubleshooter, there is always constructive action that can be taken even if the server room is on fire. At the very least one can minimise impact and give warnings and if possible buy time. If the reaction is kneejerk, then you're a puppet on a string. A whole bunch of kneejerks at once doesn't make a difference, just means all the puppets were attached to one string. – Kilisi Oct 2 '19 at 20:14
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    Years ago I was the victim of gender discrimination, and fighting that fight is usually not a fight that can be won, so found another job and left instead. I will always be in awe of my two male co-workers who also found different jobs, and left. Standing up with someone against a wrong is courage. – thursdaysgeek Oct 3 '19 at 15:09
  • @thursdaysgeek were they family men? – Kilisi Oct 4 '19 at 0:09
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    @Kilisi I'm not sure how it matters, but yes, both were married and perhaps had kids. – thursdaysgeek Oct 4 '19 at 14:58
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    @thursdaysgeek I wouldn't let my kids suffer for a single day for anyone else however worthy the cause. But I just reread your comment, and they got other jobs first, so good for them. – Kilisi Oct 4 '19 at 19:46
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I stand corrected, 2 mods have stepped up, feel free to delete this whole post.

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  • You can't delete your own post? – Zev Spitz Oct 6 '19 at 7:53
  • @ZevSpitz nope, not once it got all those lovely votes – Kilisi Oct 6 '19 at 8:01

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