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https://workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7035/psa-recognize-effort-before-voting-to-close-or-forcing-close

Can somebody please clarify why my post around content deletion was deleted?

It's ironic to be sure, but I don't believe that is a good reason.

I outlined a few specific concerns I have in the community, without mentioning specific users or instances.

I believe TWP meta was the appropriate place to instigate these discussions, and I am unsure why the moderators deleted (not closed - deleted) my post.

I think we should generally strive for transparency, and while there is no violation of rules, and a constructive tone, I think users should be able to engage with the community without moderators trying to prevent a discussion.

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In light of your other recent contributions on meta, that post does read to me like a rant about perceived issues instead of someone trying to open a constructive discussion. The "are we closing too quickly" topic comes up here like clockwork and if you add in your comments towards the moderation team and people using their close vote privileges, that post reads more like a rant against the community and the moderators which doesn't really belong on meta.

I can certainly see why it might have been removed, though we admittedly neglected to explain why. We should have handled that better. If your question was posted in good faith perhaps we jumped the gun but seeing as how you reposted it already, I suppose no further action is required here.

As before, I recommend that you reach out to the Community Team via the Contact page if you have an issue with the moderation team's actions. Regularly rehashing the same perceived issues on meta is unlikely to lead to different outcomes and I imagine can be quite frustrating.

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I was not aware of the post you link to until this question. I took a read.

The following comment is with high respect but complete honesty: I feel it was a rant. I feel it was strongly aimed towards "mods" and lacks the tone and content for anyone to actually discuss, have a conversation, and reach something. I see no questions in it, except for a rhetorical one, so surely nothing to discuss or reach a consensus... u

Under that light, I don't see deleting it as a bad call, although I get you may be left confused (but again, do recognize is quite like a rant)... please, if you want to discuss or chat remember to always keep a good tone and be professional

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  • I think it's the appropriate place to raise concerns. I didn't mention specifics because I don't want to get into arguments about particular cases. I think the bar should be set very high for moderators to delete (not close) content in meta. I'm curious to see if anyone else seems views things the way I do. Or maybe I'm an outlier, and my understanding of what TWP is is just blatantly wrong.
    – Gregory Currie
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:03
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    Raise concerns, yes, but not rants. If you wish a more detailed conversation consider using chat. Consider reading about what moderation involves. We do set our bar very high, and most of the moderation is done by Community (as it should), but don't confuse that with deleting a post that lacks anything answerable, is clearly a rant, is clearly aimed towards someone specific, and it's evident it's about the post on main site that got closed and that you had an answer on... please, don't continue down this road, there are better, more polite ways to understand and talk
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:06
  • I don't know the distinction between raising a concern and a rant. If there is some way that the content can be improved to make it more palatable, that would be good to know. Is it just a factor of the length? Also, regarding who it was aimed at, it was generally aimed at users that are trigger finger on the close button. Surely you can't deny there has been quite a few cases where questions have been reopened to revert community vote to close.
    – Gregory Currie
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:15
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    "I don't know the distinction between raising a concern and a rant" - This worries me. You either are "playing dumb" or you genuinely can't distinguish between them nor be polite or professional when addressing fellow Community members... I really hope it's the first one. Regarding the trigger-happy situation... I completely agree with you. it's no news, it's been a thing for several years now, there are several posts on meta here about it and even answers to mods postulations regarding the topic... not news for me....
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:18
  • I was polite and professional. I spoke very generally, and I didn't want to flag specific people, or instances. I absolutely know the difference between being polite and professional, and not being those things. But I think constructiveness it the difference between a rant and raising concerns... and I was constructive... right?
    – Gregory Currie
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:21
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    @GregoryCurrie but yes, some folks are trigger happy. But with all complete honesty, not mods, or at least not me. The covid booster shot I was cheking out. We closed it 24h after it was posted, so surely not trigger-happy... The tools we have at our disposal to deal with trigger-happy folks are reopen votes, comments, chat, and if there is no consensus, us mods... as a 40k+ member you can 1) edit or suggest edits to improve 2) go to The Workplace Chat and ask opinion and suggestion of other active members 3) edit, improve, post here in meta a reopen request... etc
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:21
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    "and I was constructive... right?" - with all due respect again Gregory, that deleted meta post.... no, it doesn't read constructive. I don't even see a goal or something to discuss in it. It's a rant. It doesn't even have a question we could discuss... but, meh, I suggest we leave that be. I gave you feedback. I suggested we focus on improving the closed question into shape.
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:24
  • I'll try and figure out how to start a discussion in an even more constructive tone.
    – Gregory Currie
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:25
  • @GregoryCurrie thanks. And I'll see if I can take a first edit to that closed post, one which we can work it out and reopen perhaps.
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:26
  • For me, it's trigger-happy because it needlessly short-circuited the regular content curation done by the community. It's less about time, and more about the process. Just so you know where I'm coming from.
    – Gregory Currie
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:31
  • @GregoryCurrie I totally get you on that. On many cases not even 30mins have gone and the post is closed! What time to improve one could have there? Well... that's why I say that it's critical to do edits and suggestions and clarifications as soon as the question is asked, as to avoid any trigger-happy folks to come down and halt the improvement process... although to be honest, a closed post can still be improved and edited so... not quite sure if closing a post halts the content curation process...
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:36
  • It certainly disrupts it. Because then it has to start to accumulate reopen votes, rather than potentially accumulate close votes. When it also closed for (what must have been?!) the wrong reasons, it's hard for people to know how to improve it.
    – Gregory Currie
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:39
  • Reopen votes yes, but the improvement process or the editing capability is NOT halted... I differ with you on that aspect it seems... yes, answers have to wait and those are halted, but posting an answer to anunclear or off-topic post can have its drawbacks (what if the post changes considerably, what if more details come, what if OP clarifies a key point... etc).. I totally agree with the trigger-happy situation about close votes... but I'm wondering if we also have trigger-happy folks that only care about posting their answer, regardless of anything else... talk about disrupting Q&A curation
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:44
  • I think that's the issue though, a question is perfectly clear to me, but a moderator is making an executive decision that it's unclear and that I can't answer, and that the question, and all existing content should be generally hidden from the masses. I tried to clarify this point of view in my "rant" so people can understand what I'm coming from.
    – Gregory Currie
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:47
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    @GregoryCurrie first one I stumbled upon. It's even a post by Monica: workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/q/5085/73791
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Jan 13, 2022 at 15:51

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